Ohio resident who survived Nazi prison camp included in PBS documentary

Longtime Cincinnati resident Bob Doolan was a survivor of the Nazi prison camp Stalag Luft III.

He is included in a new PBS documentary "The Green Box: At The Heart of War."

The film, which just premiered nationwide, is based on a memoir by Jim Kurtz and tells the story of his decades-long search to discover more about his father, 2nd Lt. Bob Kurtz, who was also held prisoner at Stalag Luft III during WWII.

Doolan’s daughter, Patricia Schoborg spoke with WYSO's Jerry Knney about her father’s experience during the war and after.

Patti Schoberg: Growing up, my brother and sister and I never knew anything about his experiences, but we never got the impression he didn't want to talk about it or that it was horrible memories and he couldn't. I think it was just that part of his life was over; now he's in this life and you go forward.

But after he retired, I think he felt the need to share his story at schools and libraries and things and wanted other people to understand what it was like. He definitely shared his story.

He was a Scout leader for almost 35 years at his parish and I would hear, and I still do, from people who were a scout that say, 'oh, your father made such an impression on us.' And I know he talked about some of his experiences with them.

So then in his later years, I would take him to some of his talks and everything, so I would here more and more. But I think reading the book, The Green Box, made me realize, 'Oh, I never thought about that,' and there were some things maybe I could have asked him. The book is very easy to read.

Kenney: He was a POW in the camp with Bob Kurtz, who The Green Box focused on. What has he told you about his experience there with the other POWs?

Schoberg: Well, I think he and Bob were in different compounds, but they were in the same camp. And again, reading The Green Box and how the pain and sorrow Jim's dad went through separated from his wife and his first child. My dad didn't have that. He met my mom in Salina, Kansas when he was training and he was writing to her after he was shipped overseas, but it's not the same as having a newborn and a wife and missing them. My dad... I think always had a positive attitude, so he would say, yeah, we were cold, we were hungry, but in his particular compound, at least they were never starving. He always felt that because it was a Luftwaffe camp, a German Air Force prison camp, even from World War I, there was a respect from German flyers to Allied flyers. They did respect each other. They were enemies. They had respect for each other. So in a German prison camp, at least at Stalag Luft III, they followed the Geneva Convention. So he knew he was better off there than in a Japanese camp because they didn't honor that. He was able to get mail, to send mail. They got Red Cross packages. The YMCA sent things. So it wasn't a picnic, but there were good things for them.

He would talk sometimes about he didn't understand how some of the prisoners just gave up and stayed in their bed all day. That's not him. You know, they had a library and actually he was the librarian. So in his logbook that I have, he's got a list of every book he read during his time in the prison camp. They were able to put on plays. Because either of the Red Cross or the YMCA sent costumes. He's got a list of the plays they put on. There were prisoners who had been educators before the war and they held classes. So my dad actually learned enough in one of the classes. He got credit from the University of Cincinnati when he came back to town. The difference between my dad's story and the green book also is my dad. Wasn't captured right away when their plane went down. So he was on the loose for three weeks, helped by the Dutch resistance. And then they were captured. So a part of my dad's story has always been the time from when they made his final mission and the time, they were loose and then onto prison camp.

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Kenney: Do you recall how he was captured? Was that just from a general sweep of where they were being kept or where they held out?

Schoberg: They were flying from Alconbury, England, and it was his 13th mission. I think their plane was hit as soon as they crossed from England into the continent. The number four engine was hit, but they were able to fly with three engines, so they went on to their site. But when they got close to the site, they were hit by a lot of flak. They did drop their bombs. The flyers in the back of the planes, a lot them had damage from the flak, so when they were on the return trip, to avoid more damage, the pilot sent the plane into a dive, but not to crash land, just to get low. And apparently the men in the back thought they were going to crash, so they parachuted out. My dad always said, I don't know why we didn't communicate between the front end of the plane and the back end, but guys in the front stayed in the plane.

They flew low, they had German fighters on either side of them that kept pointing to land. My dad had a gun trained on his side, the other gunner had a gun, but no one fired on each other. So finally the pilot asked my dad, how far away from England are we? And my dad told him, and the pilot said, we don't have enough fuel to make it back to England. So he brought it down in a field in Holland. And my Dad always said it was the most beautiful landing. Wheels were up, but he brought that plane down. I think there were five of the men still in the cabin. They had to leave one man there because he was in shock. And they knew when the Germans captured him, he would be taken to a hospital. So my dad told the other three, Spain's that way, and they all hit the road, so to speak.

They were walking through a forest and a man came up to them and offered to help. He gave them some food. My dad traded his high school ring for the food because he didn't want to be caught with anything with English on him. Then they walked through the forest again. And that evening, another man came up and said he could help them. So he took them to a safe house where they got civilian clothes. My dad had to give up his brand-new boots and everything. But again, they wanted to appear as civilians. I think he said he wore those same clothes for 35 days.

So they were taken to various safe houses. And he always talked about how brave those people were because if the Nazis had found out they were helping allies, they would have been killed, and their families would have killed. So he's never forgotten their bravery. Eventually they got near the Hague and my dad and his co-pilot were walking many feet apart, so it didn't look like they were together. My dad knocks on the door, he's ready to knock on the door of a supposed safe house and it's yanked open and he's drawn and thrown into the room, and there's some SS and some Gestapo. He's hit over the head, he's handcuffed. A few minutes later, his co-pilot gets the same treatment. So they were interrogated, you know, name, rank, serial number, that's all they would tell them. I think they were hoping to learn who helped them, if anyone. They were held for close to three weeks, I think. So then finally the Germans realized, yeah, they didn't have any useful information. They were transported to Stalag Luft III and he was there about 16 months.

Kenney: 16 months, that is quite an ordeal. I know your dad survived the war, but just a perilous tale all the way through. The film focuses on, at least talks about generational impact of those war experiences, particularly for soldiers who didn't make it home. But can you tell me what kind of impact it has when a soldier does come home with your dad's type of story? He survived but he's got all this to share, and that still has to affect the makeup and the perspective that a family might approach life with.

Schoberg: Yeah, I think I could see that in many families. I think with us, you know, my dad never really referred to it when we were growing up. So, yeah, we kind of knew it and every month, he and my mom belonged to this, quote, Air Force group of other veterans, not necessarily from prisoner of war, but you know it was a show soul thing. Okay, those are people in the war. But I would say I think it taught my dad that you make the best of what you have. You make do and you go on. I told him one time, I heard this quote from somebody that said, if you don't like the way things look, change the way you look at it. He loved that. And I think that really was his philosophy. If you need something, you try and get it yourself, make it yourself. Do what you can and go on, you don't give up, you just go on and I think we learned that and I know a lot of his scouts learned that, some of them were inspired I think to join Armed forces because of his story and they wanted to serve America too. So yeah, it's just the way it is. You take what you have and make the best of it.

Kenney: Was your dad able to maintain relationships with his fellow airmen or people he shared these experiences with over the years?

Schoberg: He did, he really, until he passed, he was in contact with his co-pilot's widow after the co- pilot passed away. I mean, they wrote to each other several times a year. We went to visit someone in New Mexico when I was growing up that he had trained with. Yeah, he tried to keep in touch with a lot of them and he went to every Stalag Luft III reunion that he could. They even, again, because of that respect, I think the Luftwaffe had for the Allied fliers at one reunion, I know they brought over at least one of the German guards. And, you know, there was no personal animosity. My dad never had any negative thoughts about Germans. It wasn't the Germans he was fighting, it was Hitler and the Nazis and the SS. It, you now, it wasn't people of Germany.

Kenney: Any other final thoughts that you would have our listeners take away from this conversation about your father or his experience in general?

Schoberg: One thing I always hear in my head is, and you hear it from many veterans, from any war, if you ask them about it, one of the first things they'll say is, we all had a job to do. And I think that's probably important for all of us to remember, no matter what your occupation is or what your situation is, you have a job do and do it the best that you can. I think many people in that generation especially felt that and it's good to remember, we need to remember the sacrifices everyone has made in the whole history of our country. You make mistakes, but you go on and you do your best.