SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
President Trump says he wants Russia and Ukraine to stop fighting in their current positions and start setting up a ceasefire. He made the comments Friday after a two-hour meeting in the Oval Office with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, who told reporters that he agreed.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: He's right. President is right, that we have to stop where we are. This is important to stop where we are and then to speak.
SIMON: Getting there, however, remains a challenge - and, Ukrainians say, largely because of Russia. NPR's Ukraine correspondent Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv joins us. Joanna, thanks for being with us.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Thanks for having me on the show, Scott.
SIMON: How are Ukrainians reacting to President Trump's latest proposal to end the war?
KAKISSIS: Well, Scott, Ukrainians certainly want a ceasefire. They want an end to the war, which Russia started. And they certainly see that this is a war of attrition, and Russia is larger and has more resources. In Kyiv, we spoke with Vladyslav Havrylov, who investigates Russian war crimes here. And here's how he put it.
VLADYSLAV HAVRYLOV: (Non-English language spoken).
KAKISSIS: He's saying that the war is depleting Ukraine, that there are not enough people or resources or emotional bandwidth to keep fighting indefinitely. However, like many Ukrainians, he says that a ceasefire favoring Russia would only open Ukraine to future Russian attacks.
SIMON: How has President Zelenskyy tried to convince the Trump administration that accommodating Russia is not going to lead to peace?
KAKISSIS: So, Scott, before I get into that, let me point out that Russia actually began its war on Ukraine back in 2014, seizing parts of the south and east. Now, Russia agreed to previous ceasefires during that stage of the war but repeatedly violated the terms. And then in 2022, Russian forces tried to invade all of Ukraine. So Zelenskyy told reporters in Washington that to make a current ceasefire work, you need to strengthen Ukraine and force Russian President Vladimir Putin into concessions.
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ZELENSKYY: Well, for us, all the signals from Russians - they're not new. But we count on president, on his pressure on Putin, to stop this war.
KAKISSIS: And by pressure, he means additional U.S. sanctions or supplying Ukraine with American weapons like the Tomahawk cruise missile, which can hit targets deep inside Russia. But the Trump administration has not agreed to either.
SIMON: Can President Zelenskyy do anything more to convince him?
KAKISSIS: Well, that's not clear because, you know, Ukrainians often see their diplomatic efforts fall apart after Trump talks with Putin, which he did before Zelenskyy's visit. And Zelenskyy, by the way, has spent months working on his relationship with Trump, which got off to a very rocky start at the beginning...
SIMON: Yeah.
KAKISSIS: ...Of the year. Ukraine has also signed a minerals deal with the Trump administration. Zelenskyy offered cutting-edge drones in exchange for maybe some Tomahawk cruise missiles. Ukrainian diplomacy did seem to pay off last month when Trump suggested Russia was weak and Ukraine could even win this war, but Zelenskyy walked away Friday with not much of anything. And Trump said he will meet with Putin soon in Hungary.
SIMON: Do Ukrainians tend to believe that President Trump alone can convince Russia to agree to a ceasefire?
KAKISSIS: You know, some Ukrainians are skeptical. I spoke with Oleksandr Kraiev of the Ukrainian Prism Foreign Policy Council in Kyiv, and he said Trump won't be able to negotiate any kind of ceasefire involving Russia without China, which supports Russia politically and financially.
OLEKSANDR KRAIEV: China is the only one who can influence Russia to stop hostilities and to stop the attacks and to stop the war as it is. So basically, without substantial push from China and without substantial push from the United States on China in order to push on Russia, I don't think anything will be done.
KAKISSIS: He says the next steps might be clear after China and the U.S. fight out their trade war.
SIMON: NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Thanks so much.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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