STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Rahm Emanuel has been listening in with us. He has held many government positions over the years, including mayor of Chicago and, relevant here, President Biden's ambassador to Japan. Ambassador, good morning.
RAHM EMANUEL: Good morning, Steve. How are you?
INSKEEP: OK. Good to talk with you again. Are U.S. relations with Japan as solid as they sounded today?
EMANUEL: There is no doubt they're on a solid footing. I think - and you've got to look at it across four kind of buckets, if I could. There's a geostrategic, military, economic and then cultural. Going backwards, you know, there's the great pastime in Japan is baseball. You got a Japanese player - two players for the Dodgers...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
EMANUEL: ...And he's taking America and Japan by storm. You look at economic - Japan's the No. 1 foreign investor in the United States in the last five years. Half the money goes into manufacturing and industrial. That will probably continue. And America's the No. 1 investor in Japan. IBM, by way of example, Micron, by way of example, probably some of the largest foreign companies that are employers in Japan. That will continue apace. You will see also in the strategic area, and one of the things I think is important is there's nothing that happens in that region that the United States doesn't have Japan with it by its side, from the Korea trilateral to the Philippines, Japan, U.S. trilateral, to the quad - India, Australia, Japan and the United States. So strategically - and Japan in the region is the most positive country from any kind of public opinion. And that helps America's hard power, having Japan's - I wouldn't call it soft power so much as public respect.
INSKEEP: Got it.
EMANUEL: So it is a good, solid relationship. I think it has its bumps as it has over the years. I think the way the tariffs have kind of rolled out kind of is not exactly the way I would have kind of nurtured that relationship as we kind of use by deterrent against China.
INSKEEP: Yeah.
EMANUEL: But it's an important ally, and it's on solid foundation.
INSKEEP: The prime minister seems to have done a lot to get on the president's good side, including talking about a Nobel Prize. Is that, in this case, good for the United States as well?
EMANUEL: Well, I mean, here's what I would say. It's positive in the sense that you don't - it avoids being on the crossfire. It probably helps when you get down to the crunch on issues. But seeing eye to eye on a collective deterrence on China probably doesn't help because I think the president is trying to do the relationship with China based on economic deal. And this is a long-term strategic deterrence on the geostrategic, political, the military and the economic side. And I'm not sure the president's vision of what deterrence is in Japan, Australia, Korea, our allies traditionally have, and friends in the region have. So that's the probable...
INSKEEP: Wait, are you saying you're worried that, in some sense, the United States might end up selling out its allies if it gets a good deal from China?
EMANUEL: I'm never one short for words, so that's a good summation.
(LAUGHTER)
INSKEEP: OK.
EMANUEL: Here's the thing. Look, every country in Southeast Asia and in the Indo-Pacific wants America anchored in the region as a counterweight to an untethered, uncontrolled China. And the president's trying to strike an economic trade deal without realizing the geostrategic component is that we don't share the same kind of level of what deterrence looks like. And so I do worry about that. And let's forget me. Who cares? I'm a former ambassador. Our allies in the region worry about America's ability to go the distance and be true to its word. That's a problem.
INSKEEP: Ambassador, I want to ask about one other thing. You've done a lot of interviews recently. You went to Iowa and talked with voters. You've been pretty open that you are at least considering a run for president in 2028. What is it that you want to say that other Democrats are not yet saying?
EMANUEL: You know, look, that's a fair question. And to me, the American dream has become unaffordable. It's inaccessible, and that's unacceptable to me. We have literally a percent of the kids - my kids are going to be fine. They're going to be able to navigate the world. They have not only come from a loving home, a good education. But 90% of the kids in America, the ladder has been pulled up from them. They cannot get a down payment to a home. They can't afford to save for their own education. And to me, the inaccessibility of the American dream seems to be passe in Washington, and yet it's a burning issue in the country. And if I think I have something to offer not only to solve that, but a proven record to get it done, then I'll do it. But if I see other people that I think are making that case with the kind of passion and grit that I think is necessary, you know, I would stand aside. But that's [inaudible].
INSKEEP: In 2024, Democrats, I think, part of their message was, let's preserve the system, preserve institutions, preserve democracy as we've known it. Is this a new message that some Democrats want, essentially, the system isn't working. Let's burn it down?
EMANUEL: So as I said in Iowa, I will repeat to you. First of all, I want to say I came - I woke up at 4:30 in the morning to do an interview about Japan...
INSKEEP: Got it.
EMANUEL: ...So I feel like you got goods through customs here.
INSKEEP: Got it. Got about 20 seconds left. Go ahead.
EMANUEL: Here's what I would say to you is the system is rigged. I spent my whole life trying to unrig it from getting health care for kids, health care for families, financial reform. I'm done trying to unrig it. I want to rig it on behalf of the American people 'cause the system is rigged. My kids have a system that tilts to their favor. They start on their own 40. Everybody else's children who are working, doing right, playing by the rules, their kids start on their own 10.
INSKEEP: OK.
EMANUEL: That's how the system is designed.
INSKEEP: Rahm Emanuel, thanks for the football analogy. Really appreciate it. He served as U.S. ambassador to Japan during the Biden administration, along with many other positions. Pleasure talking with you. Thanks.
EMANUEL: Thanks, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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