MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
At 8:14 this morning, an email landed in my inbox and the inboxes of every other journalist here in our newsroom. Subject line - today, NPR and three member stations filed suit against the recent EO. Well, the recent EO is President Trump's executive order targeting federal funding for NPR and PBS. The lawsuit was filed this morning in federal court here in D.C. It argues that Trump's EO is a clear violation of the Constitution and First Amendment protections for freedom of speech and association and freedom of the press.
Well, when NPR is in the news, we report on ourselves as we would any other organization. So we have invited NPR President and CEO Katherine Maher to walk downstairs from her office here at headquarters into Studio 31 to take our questions. Katherine, welcome.
KATHERINE MAHER: Lovely to be here.
KELLY: In the interest of transparency, I want to note we asked to interview you because you're a stakeholder in this news story. You don't know what I'm about to ask. You had no input into these questions.
MAHER: That's right.
KELLY: OK, so to the questions. The lawsuit cites NPR's First Amendment right, quote, "to be free from government attempts to control private speech, as well as retaliation aimed at punishing and chilling protected speech," end quote. Can you explain, in plain English, what that means, what the thrust of this lawsuit is?
MAHER: So NPR is a private organization, and we have the right as a media organization to make our own editorial choices about what it is that we cover and how we cover it. And what we found in the executive order was that the order discusses the need to end federal funding based on the accusation that we are not presenting fair, unbiased news. So from our perspective, what that means is that the order implies that NPR needs to change its editorial posture if we are to receive federal funding.
It's very clear from the Public Broadcasting Act that public media is meant to be an independent source of information, and in fact, it is protected in the statute that established the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. We believe that this is an infringement on NPR's First Amendment rights, but it is also an infringement on those rights of our station, both their editorial First Amendment rights and their rights to associate with NPR, if they are unable to use their funds to choose to air our programming.
KELLY: So the argument, as I understand what you're saying, is that NPR, like any other news organization in the United States, is free to choose what it covers, how it covers it, what language we use to do so.
MAHER: That's correct. And even though we receive federal funding, we are still protected by those same rights.
KELLY: There's a line that jumped out at me that I marked in the lawsuit, and I'll quote it. "It is not always obvious when the government has acted with a retaliatory purpose in violation of the First Amendment. 'But this wolf comes as a wolf.'"
MAHER: Antonin Scalia.
KELLY: Yeah.
MAHER: That's a great line.
KELLY: The late, conservative Supreme Court Justice Scalia. What does it mean here?
MAHER: In this instance, it is evident from the president's executive order, as well as statements released by the White House and prior statements by the president, that we are being punished for our editorial choices.
KELLY: NPR is suing alongside Aspen Public Radio, Colorado Public Radio and KSUT Public Radio. Why? Why sue with Colorado stations?
MAHER: Well, it wasn't actually intentional to choose all stations from one state. It just so happened that we were looking for stations that represented an urban area, rural areas and perhaps a more diverse region. And so, in the case of KSUT, that is a station that was actually created as a tribal station by the Southern Ute Tribe. So those stations represent the diversity that public radio offers in terms of the communities that it serves, and we felt like they would be good co-plaintiffs in this instance, and they agreed.
KELLY: NPR has 246 member stations. Why aren't others in the mix?
MAHER: We were looking for three co-plaintiffs that would allow for us to represent that diversity and move quickly to file this complaint.
KELLY: What about PBS? Because the executive order targeted funding to NPR and PBS. Why is PBS not suing alongside NPR?
MAHER: Well, PBS is a separate organization. We know from their statement when the executive order came out that they similarly find this order to be unlawful.
KELLY: Do you worry about further retaliation? We're witnessing with Harvard what happens when an institution decides to stand up and fight back.
MAHER: We definitely thought about what the consequences might be when we move forward to file the suit, and I should say that we are not choosing to do this out of politics. We are choosing to do this as a matter of necessity and principle. All of our rights that we enjoy in this democracy flow from the First Amendment - freedom of speech, association, freedom of the press. When we see those rights infringed upon, we have an obligation to challenge them, and that's what's at stake here. Retaliation is something we all think about, and yet the principle of what we do and how we do it, we have to defend our editorial integrity and the integrity of those rights.
KELLY: For people listening, will NPR sound any different as this plays out?
MAHER: No. I don't believe so. The entire point of going forward with this litigation is to protect our editorial independence. And as you started this segment by saying, there is a firewall between the newsroom and management, such as myself. I believe that the way that we do our work and the way that we are successful is by pursuing journalism that is excellent. And so I don't think we'll sound different. I think we'll sound exactly as we are - fair, responsible, nonpartisan and seeking the facts.
KELLY: Last thing, Katherine Maher - the backdrop here is, of course, bigger than NPR. It's bigger than public broadcasting. We are witnessing a wider assault by the Trump administration on a free press. Are you speaking with leaders of other news organizations about how to navigate this moment? Are you getting support from other news organizations?
MAHER: Yeah. So I've had a number of conversations with leaders of larger media organizations - even than NPR. And I do believe that many of us feel as though this is a very difficult moment for this profession. Also a difficult moment for our role as the press in democracy. And I think that is the - you know, without sounding grandiose, I think that's what animates many people who step into newsroom roles, leadership roles at media organizations. And so we're feeling not just the importance of the moment in terms of operations of an NPR or another media company but really sort of the existential moment for what is it that we're doing to serve the American public right now.
KELLY: Thank you.
MAHER: Thank you.
KELLY: That's Katherine Maher, NPR's CEO and president.
And NPR did reach out to the White House for comment on the lawsuit. Here is what we heard back today from White House spokesperson Harrison Fields - the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, CPB, is creating media to support a particular political party on the taxpayer's dime. Therefore, the president is exercising his lawful authority to limit funding to NPR and PBS. Mr. Fields continues, quote, "the president was elected with a mandate to ensure efficient use of taxpayer dollars, and he will continue to use his lawful authority to achieve that objective." Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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