LEILA FADEL, HOST:
In Colombia, millions of people are living in conflict zones. And that number just keeps going up. Some 70% more civilians are living in that danger than three years ago. That's according to a new report from the Norwegian Refugee Council. And the head of that humanitarian organization, Jan Egeland, says the violence and the consequences of that armed conflict aren't getting the global attention they need, especially from nations like the U.S., where many politicians in both parties are calling for stricter border enforcement to stem the flow of migration. He argues it's not higher walls that will stem that flow, it's addressing the root cause.
JAN EGELAND: We either fix it where people are and invest in places like Colombia and Venezuela, or there will be migration forever.
FADEL: I spoke to Egeland after his return from a visit to Colombia.
EGELAND: In Colombia, there are now eight armed conflicts. And more than 8 million people live in these areas where there are many armed groups and drug cartels. They fight each other and they fight the army, so now more than 5 million people are internally displaced in Colombia. And it's a major armed conflict. On top of that, 3 million people from Venezuela have sought shelter there, and hundreds of thousands of people each year now wander north towards North America. It's a complete chaotic scene of suffering, and it is neglected.
FADEL: Why do you think it's gotten so little of the world's attention?
EGELAND: I think it's because, No. 1, these are internal armed conflicts. And these are happening in rural areas mostly. And then, North America, Europe, the richer parts of the world, have become very internal-looking and are only focused on Ukraine and perhaps the Middle East, but mostly on their own internal matters - which is a short-sighted policy because if we don't want uncontrolled migration, there should be more focus on unbearable conditions for millions of people who are giving up hope where they are.
FADEL: What specifically did daily life look like, if you could just recall for us what you found, what people were living through, any specific anecdotes?
EGELAND: Well, I crisscrossed the country up through the rainforest to Indigenous communities that are on the verge of extinction. Because they have been forced from their land by drug lords. They are now living in communities that are under confinement. When an armed group say you cannot anymore be in your land - we want to have the land, we want to cultivate drugs there or we want to fight our enemy there - you stay within this little village, and you tell us if you want to leave. And we may say no to that. It's really a house arrest or village arrest, if you like. And there are 60,000, 70,000 people we have identified in these confinements. And the number is rising.
FADEL: When you think about solutions or actions that could be helpful in this moment, what is that?
EGELAND: It's two things, really. No. 1, there must be continued efforts in political solutions, negotiated settlements with the armed groups, as there has to be political solutions to the crisis in Venezuela. If there is no diplomatic outcome after these elections that have been disputed, people will continue to trek from Colombia because of the conflicts and the misery there and because of the chaotic conditions inside Venezuela. Secondly, there must be investments in livelihoods, education and economic future for the marginalized groups, including protection for the most vulnerable, which are Indigenous communities. There are 80 Indigenous tribes in Colombia that are on the point of extinction.
FADEL: And when you say that there needs to be negotiations with these armed groups, that would be between the Colombian government and these armed groups like we saw with the FARC eight years ago, is that the idea?
EGELAND: Yes. I mean, in 2016, there was a successful negotiation with the FARC. It was the largest armed guerrilla group in the Western Hemisphere. However, it was not successful to fill the void where the FARC was. So new armed groups have taken that space and are now cultivating drugs and now trafficking people, including people north through the Darien Gap in Panama and towards Central America and North America. That void needs to be filled.
FADEL: Jan Egeland is secretary general of the Norwegian Refugee Council. Thank you for your time.
EGELAND: Thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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